Inside music | Bluey

Text courtesy of www.agency79.de, interview from June 23rd, 2004.

Q: We are talking to one of the greatest producers, musicians and composers, Jean-Paul "Bluey" Maunick, who happens to be the band leader of Incognito. There are two things to talk about these days: First of all the new album "Adventures In Black Sunshine" and secondly 25 years of Incognito.


Q: Let's talk about the album first. Now that it is done: How do you feel about "Adventures In Black Sunshine"?

BLUEY: I think it's my little triumph, my little trophea because I feel I've come full circle. In the 25th year of Incognito, to mark this event, but also to mark the 10th studio album that we've done, I wanted to kind of go back and almost make a "Best Of Incognito" album. But yet they are all new songs. I wanted to have a feel like it's traditionally Incognito, the sound that people now recognize to be us. You know the horns, the voice of Maysa, the things that are most identifiable with us and also the influences of Incognito from all over the world that come into the band but yet end up sounding like Incognito. And I think this album achieves it.

Q: Absolutely. There are some changes. One of them: Maysa is back. You mentioned her already. How did this reunion come about?

BLUEY: For me it's just a question of time before I work again with people I worked with in Incognito. It's never like farewell, it's just "see you some other time". It's never an end of a relationship because you never know when you are going to be on a musical journey that maybe suits someone you met before. (...) We pass through different time zones in music. And we sometimes cross each others paths again. But this time, I intended to work with Maysa. I made that time zone cross again.

Q: You have a new bass player. To what extent does Neville Malcolm change the sound of Incognito or to what extent would any new bass player change the sound of your band?

BLUEY: Well, Julian Crampton is still playing bass on a couple of the tracks, but for the bulk of it (...): In a way Neville Malcolm was probably the most remeniscent of the original bass player of Incognito, Tubbs Williams. He has that heavier sound and more raw attitude to bass. Julian is probably more of a complete bass player, but there is definitely a sound, an attitude from Neville's playing that put its stamp on this record (...).

Q: Let's "Listen To The Music" for a second. How did you develop the idea of covering "Listen To The Music" by the Doobie Brothers?

BLUEY: Every song that I've ever covered - if you look at "Don't You Worry 'Bout The Thing", "Always There" or "Nights Over Egypt" - these are songs that I played in bands prior to being in Incognito. They were part of my life, they were part of what I listened to, they were part of what I played when I was in pub bands and club groups before I even had a recording contract. The Doobie Brothers played a major part. And also every cover that I've ever done, I've also met the people (composers). So I'm using it like a calling card. If I do this cover I'm hoping to meet Tom Johnson from the Doobie Brothers who was very influential in my career. Not just musically, but also lyrically. You know, he writes uplifting, beautiful songs. (...) For me doing this cover has many facets to it. One: It's just a great song to play. Two: I pay tribute to something that has influenced my life. Three: Hopefully I'll get to meet the Doobie Brothers.

Q: You've played with more than a thousand musicians. Also you had so many guest musicians, but this one is a very special guy: You actually played with George Duke and he's on the album. How was that like?

BLUEY: It was amazing. Actually George turned up in pretty much the same way Ed Motta had turned up in the studio just for a casual visit: To say hi, to touch base and to talk about music for half an hour. He was there in between shows while he was playing the Jazz Café in London and he wanted to hook up and see what's up really. We were talking and on his way out, as he was leaving, he kind of walked by the Rhodes and twinkled at it a little bit. I said to him "Would you fancy putting a little something down?". He said "I don't have much time since I have to get back to do the show". So we just let the tape roll. The tune which was up at the time, "Mindin' My Business", was supposed to have this massive arrangement on top of it, which I just left out because it was much more beautiful just letting it roll. (...). It was not any set form, it was just jamming, he had never heard it before, his fingers were touching the keyboards as the tape was rolling, as he was hearing and getting into it. We didn't work out what chord sequence it was, what keys it was relating to. We just played and that's what you get when you play with a genius. You can actually hear him in the front. We rolled back the tape enough for him to be able to play an intro and then he played this beautiful Rhodes intro to this song.

Q: What about "The 25th Chapter"? This one is kind of a flashback, right?

BLUEY: Initially, I wanted to jam the way that I saw the Blackbirds play back in the days. I wanted to have the kind of Black music collective that was coming out of America at the time when I first started to do this kind of music. I wanted the guitar to be a driving force of rhythm, this kind of jam that would have come out of the seventies (...). This is the way we used to play music. We used to get in a room, I would play a guitar riff and everybody else would follow. This is exactly what happened on this tune. I showed them this guitar riff and told them what the basic feel was. I just explained the bass line a little bit and a little bit of a drum pattern. I started playing my rhythm guitar and everybody else followed. We must have jammed for like half an hour. My hands were dropping off when we stopped. I had no feeling left in my right arm because the rhythm thing is so intense on that tune. After half an hour I just took the best bits and edited it. And that's what you've got. It's just a basic edit. I did a couple of overdubs on it and got the horn boys to blow - and that's what you have (laughing).

Q: That horn bridge after the first two verses is also fantastic.

BLUEY: Yeah, we kind of developed that after the jam, which was nice.

Q: "Adventures In Black Sunshine" is a commercial album, I believe, in the sense that some of the tracks could (and hopefully will) hit the charts. Was it your intention to make it a commercial CD in a certain way to attract new fans to Incognito?

BLUEY: Not really. If that happened, that would be a big bonus to us. If we had something that made the charts, if we had enough of a push from a record company, if we could have somebody invest in a video, it would be fantastic. But to be quite frank with you, this whole record was made on a real tight budget. Sometimes I had to sacrifice a lot of things to make this record. I sacrificed a lot of things in my personal life. And I had a lot of support from my girlfriend, from my kids, everybody supported me to make this happen. There were a lot of people giving me good advice without putting any financial stress on me because I had to spend everything I had to make this record. I wasn't really thinking commercially, I was just thinking: Let me just make really good songs. If Maysa is coming back in, let me have soulful songs (...). Also let me not just be cool in doing something totally retro, let me just make the songs really the best they could be. Be aware of sonically what is around me, but really be true to myself in the making of this record. So I was just trying to make the best sounding (...) record, spent my time with my lyrics and really made sure my songs were coming over, made sure the vocal performances were there to convey the emotions of the words, made sure that the music was just as important and didn't play second fiddle to a vocal production and that everything worked hand in hand. All I was trying to do was making a record that spoke to me, hoping that if it spoke to my heart then it would speak to other people. (...)

Q: Let's get to the anniversary of Incognito. What happened on that day in September of 1979, when you founded the band?

BLUEY: I remember Tubbs (Williams) came around to my house. We both sat in my bedroom. I had a guitar in my hand, I had an old Revox tape machine. He had an old Fender Precision bass. We sat at the edge of the bed, we had both been in the band called "Light Of The World" and we said "Let's do a project together that did not use the guys from "Light Of The World". (...) Let's work with other musicians from other bands. Let's work with Ray Careless from Tarantula, with Jeff Dunn from Sour Grapes. He found a drummer. (...) The only thing we were missing, was a keyboard player. So we got the keyboard player from "Light Of The World", Peter Heinz (.). About two days later we went to the studio. The night before I was having a drink in a pub. There was a guy sitting there who wanted to join the live band, but they wouldn't let him. I convinced them to let this guy have a blow. He was a flute player and he ended up on that session on the B-side. The A-side was "Parisinne Girl", the B-side was "Summer's Ended" (...). This guy came to the studio, he had never been to a studio before. He blew his heart away. It was amazing and totally touched us. And this was the beginning of Incognito. It was almost like a free jam session, but with structure.

Q: Quality is an important aspect when we talk about Incognito. You have managed to deliver
music of high quality while making sure it appeals to the masses at the same time. Non-musicians love Incognito, music professors and Jazz musicians love Incognito. Not too many bands have achieved something like this. What's the secret?

BLUEY: Not chasing the commercial dragon, just being true to ourselves and being true to the elements of music. A lot of people are not true to the elements of music. They have a song or something, they choose a producer and a team of people (...) that is going to give them commercial success. (...) They concentrate entirely on reaching a public with a sound. I think we should just make a sound that is musically wonderful. So we are answering only to the powers of music. Later on, if it transpires that people like it: Fine. But we wanted to kind of almost loose ourselves in the music. (...) Let the music touch your heart and let it be full of music. Let it be all about horns, all about keyboards and percussion and voices, interweaving with each other and creating excitement, you know? (...) That's the way music should be. It shouldn't be about "I need an album that is going to sell". (.) If Incognito can't survive the way that we are doing it now, if it has no place in the market place, then I will take it out of the market place rather than transform it to something that panders to the market place.

Q: You've had all these successes, you still do. You tour the world all the time, you have all these great albums and hits. At the same time the music industry in Europe does not seem to push Incognito the way it should because of your huge fan base and the quality you deliver. Doesn't quality count anymore nowadays? Or does it count in other regions?

BLUEY: The good thing is that there is a lot of good music around. I listen to new acts coming through all the time. So I'm not bitter that there is competition. But I am kind of upset at the fact that there is a certain prejudice that you deal with in the music business. As you get older, you are less likely to get a video, you know, because at the end of the day they are working within kind of a conventional market place. Now and again somebody comes in and shocks the system by having a totally different sound or there's enough beauty in that person to kind of push them forward. Then they sell this new act and they look for new acts which can fit that image or that sound. Incognito has been around for a long time. After a while people think "Ohhh, they are rolled out". They are not listening to your music anymore. It's not an industry that listens, but an industry that looks. The music industry is not an industry with ears, but and industry with eyes. It always has been. The business of music and the music business are two different things. They always have been. Marketing has always been a huge part of the music business. But the business of music has always been about music. And that's where I'm in. Therefore I don't feel bitter that there is this lack of interest from people. What I feel terrible about is people's lack of vision or the fact that they are not listening to it, you know. Listen to it, then reject it. If they listen to it they will find that it's as strong as anything out there. But you don't get that chance because people have already said "Ohh, they are the band that did "Don't You Worry 'Bout A Thing" back in the nineties". No, we are writing some great songs in the year 2004. I might not be the greatest musician in the world, but I can put together a team of musicians that can play the ass of any other team of musicians in the world. Also I know that we have got some great songs. As a songwriter I know that some of the songs that I have either written or co-written have as much emotion and carry as much power as any (other songs) in the history of music. I'm happy if two or three people get that message over (...). But then again I know a lot of incredible song writers who don't even get a record released. So I'm happy to have that chance. I feel quite lucky and privileged. (...)

Q: That's good to hear. Some things you said are sad. That's the way things seem to work - at least in Europe. It works better in Japan, right?

BLUEY: I think it's the world over. I think we overestimate Japan in that sense. It's just that I work very hard in Japan. A lot of people don't really understand my success in Japan but I produce Japanese acts, I work with acts that people won't work with (...), I remix, I work for very little money at times. All of the success I've had in Japan is totally deserving because of the hard work I put in. (...) In Europe it's harder just in general because there is a lot of competition (...). Radio dictates a lot in Europe and each territory has a different style of radio. (...)

Q: What's ahead for Incognito?

BLUEY: We are starting touring now and I've already started to write the next album, you know, the 26th chapter (laughing). It's another year. We push on. Life hasn't stopped. I'm feeling, I'm tasting, I'm enjoying new things in my life, I'm going through things for the first time. You're 47 only once, you're 48 only once and I'm about to go into 48 now. So I'm about to experience new things and with that will come new emotions and new ideas. I'm looking to put those out on the road, I'm looking to do some great touring, changing the band's sound live, trying to do something live which isn't on the record or hasn't been heard before from Incognito, doing new things, taking on new challenges really. Just to keep myself really alive and interested (...) . And hopefully the audience will get that when they see it live also. Because it's going to be very different from the past Incognito. It's not going to be the old singing and dancing Incognito. It will be a much more soulful thing.

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